nz poultry standards wanted

A place to learn and share show standards and information about showing! As well as upcoming regional sale days.

Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby buzzard » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:02 pm

judith01 wrote:
99chooks wrote:
judith01 wrote:With this years national show being in my backyard (ya) i want to show but are my birds up to stand???

Join the Waikato Poultry and Pigeon Club and go to some meetings, you can absorb knowledge over a chat afterwards. I joined today :-)


I did a few weeks ago but havnt heard anything back yet. :roll:


if you guys come to the next meeting (where I would say we will approve your membership) you will be able to have a geez at the draft copy of the revisions/additions.
There was a bit of wailing and nashing of teeth regarding it at the last NI delegate meeting last weekend.

But judith01, white orps aren't supposed to have slate legs, this is a disqualification in the incumbent standard and the new one.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby 99chooks » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:13 pm

I'm coming, I'm meeting Kath in Huntly and carpooling with her - saves me from getting lost :oops:
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby buzzard » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:11 am

great! look forward to meeting you.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby judith01 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:08 pm

buzzard wrote:But judith01, white orps aren't supposed to have slate legs, this is a disqualification in the incumbent standard and the new one.


Dont think i said they had to did i?
So what color are they to have in the standard new or old????
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby buzzard » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:29 pm

judith01 wrote:Dont think i said they had to did i?
So what color are they to have in the standard new or old????


your birds in your other thread seem to show you think they do.
Orps have white skin (body and soles og feet), and in the cuckoo and white varieties this includes white shank
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby judith01 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:07 pm

these were hatched from white orpingtion eggs and are still only babies. But with any breed one has to start somewhere and the whole point of a "standard" is to help those that want to bred corect type (and color) to do so.
So do we follow english or Australian standard or are these too of the same or.................................... do NZers do their own thing to suit a few breeders of the day so it fit the birds they already have?
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby buzzard » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:21 pm

the standard is just that, the standard to which benchmark your birds to. It doesn't give tips and tricks to how to breed to the standard, although there is a section at the begining on generic breeding principles.
We follow our (NZ) although some breeds' descriptions are sourced from the UK standard, however this is slowly changing, and a 'country of origin' principle is being adopted (as not all breeds come from UK and currently the UK standards dont follow country of origin).

It is quite a hard task to get an addition or alteration through, so changes are beyond just 'breeders of the day' and what they may have in their yards.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby judith01 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:52 pm

ok, i trying to understand so please bare with me. So NZ may not be same as overseas so what do we base the standard on here then? If the white leg color is imposable to get in NZ white orbs do we just give up and bred bad white orbs with colored legs or do we cross bred to try and get legs white stuffing up along the way or lossing bred type? i have seen the photos of overseas ones and nz ones and no nz ones i have seen have those white overseas legs, i have a few that are pale tho. if this is an imposablity then wouldnt we be better to accept the darker legs if we are not govened by overseas.
Will we ever be able to bred cochins like they have in the UK if the genes are not here?
Are birds judged by numbers here, you know 10 points for color, 25 for type, 5 for eye color, 25 for feathering. etc. If so wouldnt a bird with not so good leg color just loss points?
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby 99chooks » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:25 pm

We have people in NZ who can recognise the smallest hint of something different in a bird and can use that bird as the foundation for a whole pile of corrections to common faults eg slate legs in white orps. The door to breeding to standard is never closed completely, it just need patience, hard work and not settling for an inferior trait just because it would be easier.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby buzzard » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:00 am

Judith01
you raise a couple of good points re: breeding to a standard that is genetically impossible (and this is in some colour varieties) these problems are often gotten round using double mating approaches (where SQ males are bred from one line and SQ females are bred from another line). I dont like double mating, but thats my opinion and that aside, it's still nonetheless possible to get the 'right' colour in some of these quirky traits. However there are traits which are impossible in some breed varieties, (even in double mating) these should be addressed, but often judges will know this and use their discrection

However in white orps the white leg is definately possible even in a single breeding pen approach, so it is not impossible, if someone has told you this, you need to swiftly correct them. Because there are countless 'clear' shanked (ie not slate/willow) white breed varieties around: wyandotte, sussex, Plymouth rock, pekin etc (yellow skin and white skin is controlled by a separate gene so not relevant here). So it is possible in other breeds and therefore possible in orps, it just needs a bit of time and patience and a bit of know how.

and yes there is a point system in place, and this is where a bird which is sub optimal for some traits can lose points, but there are traits which are serious faults and if the chook has these they are disqualified: split wing, footfeathers/stubbs (in clean shanked birds), wrong eye colour, wrong comb for breed, wrong skin and shank colour for breed, wrong comb type for breed/variety, just to name some of the generic DQ's.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby judith01 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:57 pm

buzzard wrote:Judith01
you raise a couple of good points re: breeding to a standard that is genetically impossible (and this is in some colour varieties) these problems are often gotten round using double mating approaches (where SQ males are bred from one line and SQ females are bred from another line). I dont like double mating, but thats my opinion and that aside, it's still nonetheless possible to get the 'right' colour in some of these quirky traits. However there are traits which are impossible in some breed varieties, (even in double mating) these should be addressed, but often judges will know this and use their discrection

However in white orps the white leg is definately possible even in a single breeding pen approach, so it is not impossible, if someone has told you this, you need to swiftly correct them. Because there are countless 'clear' shanked (ie not slate/willow) white breed varieties around: wyandotte, sussex, Plymouth rock, pekin etc (yellow skin and white skin is controlled by a separate gene so not relevant here). So it is possible in other breeds and therefore possible in orps, it just needs a bit of time and patience and a bit of know how.

and yes there is a point system in place, and this is where a bird which is sub optimal for some traits can lose points, but there are traits which are serious faults and if the chook has these they are disqualified: split wing, footfeathers/stubbs (in clean shanked birds), wrong eye colour, wrong comb for breed, wrong skin and shank colour for breed, wrong comb type for breed/variety, just to name some of the generic DQ's.



Many thanks Buzzard, i will keep trying, i think it is a bit hard for newbys when we get told any thing, everyones an expert untill u nail them down. When i hatched my WO i was told they had to have dark legs by the breeder, then got told no from others, so thank you for clarifing WHITE LEGS. Shame some breeders have been missleading buyers. I am looking at crossing with sussex. This forum is so good as most people are helpful like yourself and many thanks.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby judith01 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:02 pm

i had a good look at their beaks and shangs, beaks are white, shangs are off white with a tinge of maybe what you call slate, like arocaunas but a lot paler.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby buzzard » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:56 am

Hi Judith01

good for you for wanting to improve them, sorry to read that you were misled.

by going off the pics in your white orp thread, I would consider these slate, I know what I think you are saying as yes it does somewhat fade, but they will never be white. And yes araucana's legs should all be slate -or dark greenish(no matter the colour variety) so this includes the white araucanas if you have them.
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby judith01 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:21 am

good for you for wanting to improve them, sorry to read that you were misled.
by going off the pics in your white orp thread, I would consider these slate, I know what I think you are saying as yes it does somewhat fade, but they will never be white. And yes araucana's legs should all be slate -or dark greenish(no matter the colour variety) so this includes the white araucanas if you have them.[/quote]

Yes its shame as i really wanted to show them as they are beautiful birds. I do have white Araucanas also, have sorted them out a lot as there were many with yellow legs but they mostly went to god or sold off. Now have mostly correct leg color but the odd feather on the legs but with a new roo arriving soon i hope to clean that up to. The white orp roo i got has red in his legs, not sure if it just the blood flow you can see giving a red coloring or not?
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Re: nz poultry standards wanted

Postby 99chooks » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:01 pm

judith01 wrote: i think it is a bit hard for newbys when we get told any thing, everyones an expert untill u nail them down.

I completely agree it is a shame, you get sellers who are such knowalls and tell you their birds are the absolute best you'll get and that any failure or death is your fault. It happens with dogs cats and horses etc all the time, infact I guess there are cowboys in all forms of selling. It is immoral and deceitful but they are only interested in the $$$$ and their own ego!!!! :x Reputation is the only thing you can trust and even then people who recommend others can be duped so it boils down to an "experience gained over time " thing I guess. I think going to shows and talking to the judges is a great way to learn, and it is what I intend to do, because I like you have a pile of people telling me a pile of different things and only 2 or so that I believe :?
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