Rumpless Chickens

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Rumpless Chickens

Postby sharron » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:09 pm

I've been doing some reading recently on Rumpless Chickens, in part because of a *conversation* i had about what is truly rumpless and what is just a misfit.
The following information is from a couple of websites which i found to be the easiest to read and informative.
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/ ... pless.html

Rumplessness is a genetic defect which appears occasionally. In the true rumpless condition the last vertebra (or, unofficially, the "parson's nose") is missing. These sports have appeared in various breeds. The only chicken in the US Standard of Perfection wherein this is a breed characteristic is the true Araucana.
The Manx Rumpy is the same bird as the Old English Game bantam, but lacking the parson's nose.
I have recently obtained pictures of a pair of "Persian Rumpless." These are a Mediterranean breed in character, but were originally bred as fighting or game fowl for the pit. They seem to be the same birds as the Manx Rumpies and were probably involved in the ancestry of the Rumpless Spanish Game (a.k.a. Bolos).
Another rumpless breed is the Belgian d'Everberg bantam.

#2
http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/ ... sness.html
Types of Rumpless Chickens
By Alan Stanford, Ph.D.
Brown Egg Blue Egg
Based Upon "The Genetics of the Fowl" by Frederick B. Hutt
Norton Creek Press ISBN 0972177035

Please refer to the definitions at the end of this article.
Anatomy and genetics are not difficult just hidden behind unusual words.
Rumpless birds appeal to many people for lots of reasons. Some people like the rumpless look, the Araucana people think these birds better escape predators, and others believe rumpless birds do well in fights. If you have a rumpless bird and want to raise more, it is important to know which rumpless type you have.

The simplest definition of a rumpless bird is a bird without a tailbone. Rumpless birds can have tail feathers but the standards of the American Poultry Association and the American Bantam Association do not allow tail feathers. There are many types of rumplessness in addition to the kind in these standards.

Rumplessness is difficult to understand because many different genes interact to determine whether a bird is rumpless. In addition, there are at least three distinct types of rumpless chickens: dominant,recessive, and accidental, and the dominant type can be divided into two types: dominant complete and dominant incomplete. If you know which of these types is a particular bird, you can make good decisions on how to raise more.

Unfortunately, you can't look at a living bird to learn its type of rumplessness; it is also very difficult to figure out the type of rumplessness when you dissect a dead bird. You can only disguish live accidental and genetic rumpless birds by breeding tests. However, rumpless birds from normal parents most likely are not genetic nor from a mutation.

Test matings have shown there must be a considerable number of genes preventing the dominant rumpless gene from producing rumpless birds. There are two interpretations of this effect.

1. Fischer suggested that whenever an undesirable dominant mutation occurs, individuals with genes that suppress the effects survive best. If a dominant mutation happens a lot, these modifying genes will accumulate and completely prevent the effects.

2. There must be a lot of genes forcing normal tail vertebrae . Gradually these genes accumulate and suffice to inhibit the dominant rumpless gene.

We have a rumpless Silkie from tailed parents; this might mean our rumpless Silkie's is the accidental type. However, the same parents produced three rumpless offspring in 2 years and no other parents produced any. This might mean our rumpless Silkie is (improbably) a mutation, is recessive rumpless, or that modifiers hid a parent's but not the offspring's rumplessness. Only test crosses will sort this out.

(Theres a great table on the web page if your interested)


allele - Alternate form of a gene. One of the different forms of a gene that can exist at a single locus.

caudal - 1) Of, relating to, or being a tail, 2) In or directed toward the hind part of the body.

chromosome - Linear or sometimes circular part of a cell that controls how a cell is built, functions, reproduces, interacts with its environment, and dies. Chromosomes contain most or all of an organism's genes.

dominant - An allele that determines phenotype even when heterozyrous. Also the phenotype controlled by a dominant allele.

gene - Unit of inheritance; usually part of a chromosome. Genes control how traits are expressed and transmitted to offspring.

genotype - Genetic make up of an organism, and is different from the organism's phenotype (physical appearance).

heterozygote - An organism with a heterozygous pair of genes.

heterozygous - Having different genes at corresponding loci (position) on the two homologous chromosomes; having different genes at the same spot on paired chromosomes.

homologous - Having the same relative position, value, or structure.

homozygote - An organism with a homozygous pair of genes.

homozygous - Having identical genes at corresponding loci (position) on the two homologous chromosomes; having the same gene at the same spot on paired chromosomes.

ilium - (plural ilia) a bone that is part of the hip, or pelvic girdle.

locus - (plural loci) Position of a gene on a chromosome.

lumbar - Of, near, or situated in the part of the back and sides between the lowest ribs and the pelvis. Of or relating to the vertebrae between the thoracic vertebrae and sacrum.

penetrance - The proportion of individuals of a particular genotype that express its phenotypic effect in a given environment.

phenotype - Physical appearance of an organism; different from the organism's genotype (genetic make up).

pygostyle or tailbone - A plate of bone at the posterior end of the vertebral column in most birds. Several of the last caudal vertebrae form the pygostyle. It supports the uropygium.

recessive - An allele that is not expressed when heterozygous but is only expressed when homozygous. Also the phenotype of the homozygote of a recessive allele.

retrix - (plural retrices) Tail feather, any of the stiff quill feathers in a bird's tail used to control the direction of flight.

sacral - Of or relating to the sacrum.

sacrum - The part of the vertebral column directly connected with or forming a part of the pelvis.

supernumerary - Exceeding the usual number.

synsacro-caudal - Of or relating to the synsacrum and caudal vertebrae.

synsacrum - The fused part of a bird's vertebral column (backbone) between the thoracic vertebrae and the caudal vertebrae (the pelvic region near the base of the tail). The synsacrum is fused vertebrae and includes some thoracic, lumbar, sacral, and caudal vertebrae. The number of vertebrae in the synsacrum varies from species to species. The ilium attaches to the synsacrum. The synsacrum probably developed for rigidity and so muscles can attach to it, possibly helps fine control of the tail and feet, and might have unknown functions for the feet.

thoracic - Of, relating to, located within, or involving the thorax.

thorax - the part of the body between the neck and the abdomen.

uropial gland or oil gland - A large gland in most birds. It opens toward the rear, is at the base of the tail feathers, and usually secretes an oily fluid, which the bird uses in preening its feathers.

uropygium - The fleshy posterior end supporting the tail.

vertebra - (plural vertebrae) Any of the bones or cartilaginous segments that form the vertebral column (or backbone or spinal column).

vertebral column - Backbone, spinal column.

Fischer, R. A. 1930 . "The Genetical Theory of Natural Selection." Oxford: Claredon Press.

My conclusion is that its possible and probable for genetic misfits to appear in various times in flocks in new zealand but to date i dont believe there is any evidence of true rumpless birds existing
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby Ziggy24 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:24 pm

Rumpless birds appeal to many people for lots of reasons. Some people like the rumpless look, the Araucana people think these birds better escape predators, and others believe rumpless birds do well in fights. If you have a rumpless bird and want to raise more, it is important to know which rumpless type you have.

The simplest definition of a rumpless bird is a bird without a tailbone. Rumpless birds can have tail feathers but the standards of the American Poultry Association and the American Bantam Association do not allow tail feathers. There are many types of rumplessness in addition to the kind in these standards.

Rumplessness is difficult to understand because many different genes interact to determine whether a bird is rumpless. In addition, there are at least three distinct types of rumpless chickens: dominant, recessive, and accidental, and the dominant type can be divided into two types: dominant complete and dominant incomplete. If you know which of these types is a particular bird, you can make good decisions on how to raise more.

Unfortunately, you can't look at a living bird to learn its type of rumplessness; it is also very difficult to figure out the type of rumplessness when you dissect a dead bird. You can only disguish live accidental and genetic rumpless birds by breeding tests. However, rumpless birds from normal parents most likely are not genetic nor from a mutation.
------

We have had araucanas for about 10 years now and they have always been the quiet, observent hens amongst our lot. The cockerals have been varied - young and a bit pushy, but overal a really gorgeous hen to have. They aren't too fond of the cold and in my opinion are a bit lazy- although our new cockeral has rounded them up and taken them across the field for a nose on a few occasions now. The eggs are beautiful and I am still in awe when i collect them daily. The only contender for competition would be the Pekin for me.
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby Raven81 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:23 pm

i have a rumpless chicken i named her dodo because of this.
he is meant to have a tail but doesnt so she isnt a true rumpless chook.
she doesnt have the stub of flesh where her tail is like the other girls have.
Image
dodo & her sister
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby sharron » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:13 pm

doesnt she look absolutely cute, what breed or cross? pekin? now she looks far more like a ((normal)) rumpless than the bird that started this conversation in the first place
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby judith01 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:22 pm

i took some photos of my rumpless Aracuana but still cant workout how to post :roll:
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby MrQuail » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:28 pm

Judith, if you set yourself up with an account (free) on photobucket it's really easy. Once you have your photos on photobucket, it's a good idea to edit them to a manageable size so they don't take up the whole screen. Click on the photo you want to edit, click on EDIT and then RESIZE and then adjust it to a sensible size (I usually use 600x400 pixels - this is one of the preset size options). A lot of sites you can't post a photo that is too big so this is best to do first. Then you can either choose to save it resized or save a resized version and keep the original too. Now put the cursor over the photo you want to post and a box titled LINKS will come up with several white lines that say things like Email and IM, and direct link and IMG code. You can either click on direct link, in which case it will copy that code. Then on here click Img button and then put the cursor in between the brackets and press ctrl-V so it looks like [img]pastedtext[/img] and that's your code done. Once you've finished your message click preview to check everything works ok. Alternatively you can click the direct link on photobucket and that will give the code complete, so you just press ctrl-V wherever you want the photo to go. Hope this works ok for you, would love to see your perky bottomed bird ;)
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby Raven81 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:58 pm

Dodo is a lemon cuckoo cochin (project)& she is just the sweetest cheeky wee girl & is always getting lost from the other girls
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby judith01 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:18 pm

Image

My rumpless girl.
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby sharron » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:27 am

the photo is taken from the wrong angle we need to see her derrière, tail end, toshie posterior backside etc etc, Thanks
ps is she lacking bearding or is that just the angle of the photo?
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby judith01 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:51 am

she is only a baby, will see what other photos i have, just learnt to post photos so very proud of myself :D
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby 99chooks » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:51 pm

I have a dodgy Lav Araucana as well but she has one tail feather pointing towards the ground :lol:
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby sharron » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:16 am

99chooks wrote:I have a dodgy Lav Araucana as well but she has one tail feather pointing towards the ground :lol:

I think we all have dodgy araucanas, basically in :!: my opinion :!: Araucanas in nz are possibly the breed that is the most crossed with other breeds. Its rare to see a flock of perfect araucanas, I have some absolutely perfect examples and some absolute shocking examples, but its weighing up the benefits at times of keeping certain colors and features to combine with others. A beardless bird breed to a bird that has to much can result in something perfect. But then to me they are all perfect just a bit different at times. Amazing creatures our chookens
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby sharron » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:17 am

judith01 wrote:she is only a baby, will see what other photos i have, just learnt to post photos so very proud of myself :D

Is this a different one from the one you had pics on TM when selling its eggs?
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby judith01 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:11 pm

same one.
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Re: Rumpless Chickens

Postby 99chooks » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:17 pm

sharron wrote:I think we all have dodgy araucanas,
I have had a closed group for a few years now and this is the first dickey one so she must be a throw back or a hatching problem. I will grab her at some stage to see if she has a parsons nose but I guess she must do if she has one tail feather. As you can appreciate free ranging Arau's aren't that easy to catch :D .
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